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« They "misunderestimate" Papa Ratzi at their own risk | Main | "Now that the media's paying attention" »

November 28, 2006

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Happiness Party, The Greens, Socialists, Prohibition Party, all countries have weird groups struggling for power. So far the USA has remained in the hands of people dedicated to freedom. What tomorrow brings we shall see. Let us hope the beliefs of the founding fathers prevail. Turkey among Islamic states should be welcomed to membership in the Western World as it strives to be a bridge between East and West.

Thank you for such a fine post.

My thoughts and prayers are with this fine Leader.

If Pope Ratzo sez Islam is a religion of peace when most other right-tards say otherwise, is he merely deluded, lying, or politically calculating? Maybe he's just doing a little Michael Richards-style penance?

I am ex-Catholic-cum-atheist so I am familiar with the blind adoration paid to the "Holy Father" but his/their ponitfications have had less and less to do with the real world over time (other than being able to whip other rabid religionists into a fervor).

Lance - have you never heard of the use of "irony" - which is, I suspect, precisely what is being used by the Pope!

As to the Pope's relevance over time - it is not the Pope who has become irrelevant, it is a good portion of the so-called secular progressives (of which you, I suspect, are one) who have become irrelevant, believing in nothing and, therefore, standing for nothing and accomplishing nothing relevant in a world sorely in need of deep spiritual connections between people.

My faith is a chosen faith as well as a cradle faith. I was born and baptized a Catholic and educated in Catholic schools through high school graduation.

I left the Church in my early 20s after college and returned to it freely and after serious consideration and thought many years later. I am a Catholic because I choose to be one. I pay attention to the Pope's pronouncements because I choose to do so and because, after careful thought, I think and believe that this Pope and his predecessor each, in their own way, are completely relevant to our times and my life.

Gayle - Just because you've heard of a word does not mean you're using it correctly. Papa Ratzo's statement may have been many things, but I doubt (intended) irony was one of them.
My original point stands; it was either a) delusional, b) a lie, or c) a political calculation.

As for our comparative histories, I too left the RCC at about the same age but never looked back. Examinations of any religion yielded the same result. Not believing in your invisible Sky Daddy is not the same thing as believing in 'nothing'. My reality based universe is every bit as capable (and more) of mapping out a path for a meaningful life (without clinging to the notion of divine direction from outside the natural world).

I do not believe in the xian mythology as it is too Rube Goldberg-ish:

"God sent god to die for god so that god could forgive god's creations according to god's unbending rules."

Nobody else's mythology does much better. Mind you, I'm an atheist/agnostic (you can be both). I am 1) without a belief in any god(s) and 2) see no hard evidence either way.

For further detail on purposeful living, try this link:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/heaven.html

The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven

EWTN actually stands for "Eternal Word" Television Network.

http://www.ewtn.com/general/index.asp

Egad! Thanks for the correction, Ruth Anne, and thanks for stopping by. :-)

Clearly you believe that a flood of words tumbling from your keyboard is a cogent argument. I'm older and far more experienced in life than you, Lance, and I wish you the joy of your atheistic lifestyle, but have no desire to replicate your choices. I have seen the havoc wreaked on atheists when major life trauma hits - they have nothing with which to support their psyches and I would wish that on nobody - including you.

My God is a God of love and understanding, with very specific rules for how we are to live our lives, because those lives were given to us by Him in the first place.

Gayle - Yes, I'm familiar with the god of major trauma and think that's a sad way to gain converts. The story of Job reveals a despotic tyrant who brings forth the deaths of Job's spouse and children on a bar bet but figures he can make it up to him by providing him a new family. I hope your children and loved ones are not so easily interchangeable.

"If there is a god he is a malign thug." ~Mark Twain

I still believe in God, despite my first rate education and 64 years of living in a state of total awareness and curiosity. And while I can respect and acknowledge Sissy's atheistic/agnostic point of view - I sense in you, Lance, an overt hostility to the idea of a God in whom you do not believe. You remind me very much of a pathetic friend of mine who is furious with God for the tragedies in her life, but still claims to be an atheist. Logic not tracking there at all in my view. At least you are reasonably coherent in your antipathy.


There is nothing contradictory in taking issue with an irrational belief that has so great an impact (largely negative in my view) on society that religion and theism have. The claim of being somewhat more attuned to the mind of this/these illusary gods is a demonstration of the extreme arrogance that religionists possess.

Whether you are a literalist or can take the passages of your sacred text with a bit more flexibility, the story of Job tells of a god with no more concern for human beings than a child who would continually tap the glass of his/her ant farm to torment the ants.

As I said (and you ignored while you equated my views with your "pathetic friend"), "I hope your children and loved ones are not so easily interchangeable.
"

As far as your profound knowledge gained in your 64 years (my congrats and respect for you that age does indeed confer on you), I prefer the observation Kurt Vonnegut makes when questioned about the meaning of life. He says, "Don't ask me, I just got here myself."

In all fairness to Mr. Vonnegut, I believe he opens one of his books with a quote of his own, "Our purpose here is to help each other through this thing, whatever *this thing* is."

I also like, "If your god hates the same things you hate, it's probably not real." (not Kurt btw)

Lance, darling . . . Please take a break and listen to Renee Fleming singing Schubert's Ave Maria . . .

http://sisu.typepad.com/sisu/2006/11/tuck_says_shes_.html

It is good for the soul. You don't have to believe you even have a soul. Just enjoy.

Sissy, That was very pretty. I like it much better than the Aaron Neville version. Even as one who is "soulless", there are quite a few spirituals that I like. A particular favorite is a KROQ Acoustic Xmas version of "I Saw The Light". It was kind of a punk version done I believe, by Mike Ness of Social Distortion.

You have a soul, Lance. I know because I'm praying for it. Deal with it.

There are a number of my theist friends or acquaintances who are praying for me (last count including you is somewhere in the neighborhood of 20+ people or groups). There is even an amazing web site that gathered the names of self-professed atheists from a freethought web site and prays for them in a priority order based on birth date listed (the older ones are at the top of the list as they may die sooner). They will even remove the name from the list if so requested. I have not chosen to do so as I feel it is a harmless exercise and seems to make them feel useful. My thoughts on the matter could be reduced to a bumper sticker.

"PRAYER - IT'S THE *LEAST* YOU CAN DO... REALLY."

Ms. Miller is simply wonderful !

Outstanding...

such a fine treasure.

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